Sarah McLachlan on Good Hang with Amy Poehler

Hello everyone. Welcome to another

episode of Good Hang. Very excited about

our guest today. It is the one, the only

Sarah McLaclin. I mean, so many hits,

such an incredible singer, started

Lilith Fair, created a music school. I

mean, she's just awesome and talented

and nice and funny. And Sarah and I are

going to talk about a lot of things.

We're going to talk about growing up in

Canada and whether those lakes ever get

warm. And the answer is no. We're going

to talk about Lilith Fair, what it took

to start it and make it and keep it

going. We're going to talk about her new

music, making music with her daughters

and being a woman in the world today. So

many good things. Also, I should let you

know at one point I have a coughing fit

and it is really embarrassing and Sarah

is so cool about it cuz of course she

is. She's the coolest. So, thank you

Sarah. Um, before we get started, we

always like to ask people that know our

guests to give us a question and talk

well behind their back. And we have a

great one today. Also just an incredible

musical artist in her own right. Would

love to get in here in her in here to

talk about stuff. The one, the only, the

multi- Grammy award-winning Cheryl

Crowe. Everybody. Cheryl.

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What do you say?

All I ever wanted,

>> oh my god, I can't believe I'm talking

to you.

>> I can't tell you. I In fact, it's funny.

Are we on?

>> Yeah, we're on.

>> Um, well, I'll just tell you. I texted

Adam Scott. I was driving home from

visiting my parents in Missouri. Three

and a half hour drive. And my mom's not

making memories anymore, so it's always

a hard drive back. And I listened to you

and Adam on the way back and I laughed

like for literally off and on the whole

way. It was the greatest gift ever. So

great.

>> Oh, thank did you say you texted Adam?

>> I did. I texted him right like right

after that.

>> Wait, are you guys friends? I didn't

know that.

>> Well, actually, it's funny. We were

married in a past life.

>> No, I met him.

>> I met him on the Kansas City um The Big

Slick. Oh yeah, that fundraiser they do

every year.

>> It's the funnest thing ever. Um, and I'm

from Missouri, so I kind of like edged

my way in there and I met him through

that and oh my god, he and Paul Rudd and

I mean it's just it's all your people

but it's so much fun.

>> Oh, Cheryl, that means a lot. I love

you. Where are we talking to you from?

>> Um, I'm in Nashville. I'm in the uh

technically the sun room, but is pouring

here. I mean, it's literally Nashville

is like the rainforest now. Well, I

always I always associate you with

Austin, but you're out of Austin into

Nashville.

>> Yeah, I moved actually kind of I moved

from Austin to Nashville. I got I was

engaged, got diagnosed with breast

cancer, split up, moved to um Nashville

basically all in and had Lasix surgery

most importantly all in the in the

process of like three weeks.

>> You know what? This just leads me to my

I don't it's not even a question. It's

just an observation. Just women are

amazing. I I mean I just I can't It's

just like everyone should be saying this

every day. The things you just listed

would take any man down.

>> You just pick it up and keep on moving.

>> Well, I'm I've been, you know, we're

going to we're talking to Sarah McLaclin

today and I um I had the pleasure of

watching the Lilith affair doc and two

things. one, that whole experience to me

feels like a just a great version of

what we're talking about, which is

creativity for creativity's sake, like

watching artists kind of try to find the

fun part.

>> Yes.

>> But it also

uh reminded me of how cool you are,

Cheryl Crow. Like every single time you

come on stage, I'm like, "God, look at

Cheryl's outfit. Look at her hair."

Anyway,

>> no, go on. I I have time. No, I'm

kidding.

That is so nice. I I will tell you, um,

that tour was not like anything I ever

experienced. And the whole thing came

about at such a strange, you know, La

Palooa was happening and every time like

I can remember calling my agent and

saying, I can can I get some women on a

bill? Like, I'd love to tour with Amy

Man. And every time it would be like,

yeah, people won't buy tickets to see

two women on on a bill, particularly

men. Men won't. And around that time,

Sarah had this crazy idea and uh she

wound up calling me and I was just God,

it's just a perfect time for it. All

that to say is that what we took out on

the stage was it was defiance, but it

was also like community. It was a little

bit of a gentle [ __ ] you

>> to the norms. the fact that yeah, there

were quite a few um you know, there were

quite a few gay women in the audience,

but there were as many families and as

many heterosexual couples and as many

men. I mean, it was totally everything.

So, it defied what all the agents and

the promoters were saying, like, you're

just going to wind up with an audience

full of women and they're and they're

not going they're not the ones that buy

tickets.

She really defied that in her beautiful

um

gentile

um gypsy way and she brought everybody

along with it. It was it felt like we

were taking a party out on the stage and

hopefully people did feel like they were

included.

>> Yeah.

>> I had a brilliant conversation with

Brandy Carile about it and her being in

the audience as a young you know as a

young girl and wanting to do what we

were up there doing. Um and there's

there's such beautiful power in that. It

really was not like anything else that

I've ever been a part of.

>> I always ask my um my guests a question

from someone that knows them well. And

um is there a question you have uh for

Sarah that you think I should ask her?

>> I mean, one of the things I always think

is interesting, well, two things. What

would she be doing if she wasn't doing

music? Because it's so much a part of

her. I mean, she has her own school and

um but I think about that. I was a

school teacher, so I'm always like,

"Well, if it doesn't I still go I still

say this. If it doesn't work out, I'll

go back to teaching school."

>> If it doesn't work out,

>> if it doesn't work out. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, I'll ask Sarah about that.

That's a great question. Anything else?

>> Um, yeah. This is something that I just

find interesting with people who wind up

making it. Ask Sarah if she just always

knew she was going to make it. Like, did

she just know she was going to be doing

what she's doing? because I don't think

I ever knew I was going to be doing this

until

um I was like maybe eight years in.

>> Great question, Cheryl Crow. I love you.

Thank you so much for doing this.

>> I love you, too.

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Sarah McLaclin is here. I just had a

major coughing fit before we started.

And it's good to get it out beforehand.

>> It made me think about what do you do

when you're singing and you have to

cough.

>> Yeah, that's tricky. What what do you

do?

>> Well, you cough and you just, you know,

it's one of those the show has to go on,

but you're like, I'm just going to need

a moment and tack and take, you know,

and take a drink and go,

>> you know, can't blame that one on

menopause. There's a whole lot I can,

but not that one. Um,

>> have you ever thrown up on stage?

>> No. Almost.

>> I have I have a fear of that.

>> Almost. Oh, [ __ ] Yeah. I um I was doing

um the tree lighting at Rockefeller.

were doing a Christmas show and Oh,

yeah. And I had I was freshly pregnant.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> And was just heinously ill, like just

green 24/7. And I remember being, you

know, it's very public and you're doing

this, you know, that your your sound

check and everybody's watching. And I'm

just looking in the corner. Okay,

there's a poinsetta over there. I'm just

like, where's a quiet corner that I can

go hurl in front of everybody?

Oh, the glamour. There's so many things

to talk about today. I'm thrilled that

you're here. Like when we talk about the

guests that we want to have on the show

um and your name came up, we thought

we're like that would be a dream.

>> Well, thank you.

>> And so let's start by going back because

you grew up in Canada.

>> Yeah.

>> And we we started this um interview with

me apologizing and saying sorry, sorry,

sorry, which does sound very Canadian.

>> Canadian.

>> I love a Canadian. They're the best.

They're so nice. Are they as friendly as

people think they are?

>> Generally speaking, yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Why do you think that is?

>> Um I don't know. We just we kind of are.

I mean, you know, there's [ __ ]

everywhere, but um

>> generally I think we're we're polite for

one thing. I think by nature that sort

of like,

>> you know, there's a certain thing you

uphold of just being civil and

>> Yeah.

>> polite to everybody. I know there's a

there's a um

an attit a Canadian attitude that's

really lovely to be around which is

basically and I think I mean I think a

lot of it has to do with the weather

which is basically like you can either

choose to complain or you can get on

with it.

>> Yeah, it's true. There's certainly a

solid amount of you know suck it up

buttercup and and

>> you know you just don't get anywhere by

complaining. No. Also, you know, Irish

parents is like don't go thinking you're

anything special.

>> Oh, big time. That's very that's very

Boston, too. Like very like like you

can't like

>> just don't don't um don't kind of fall

in love with yourself, you know, and

we're here to drag you back.

>> We're going to humble you every step of

the way if you do. So, you grew up in

Canada and you when did you realize, you

know, you had this gift? You knew that

music was going to be part of your life

forever. Do you remember the feeling

when you were young that you knew

>> I think I'm good at this or I think I

really want to do this. What was it?

>> Um, grade seven variety show and I have

to preface this with saying I was really

bullied. I was terribly unpopular and

this was my opportunity for redemption.

I'm going to, you know, I'm going to

prove myself to my community. And I got

up there and I sang u the Gambler by

Kenny Rogers on acoustic guitar. Is it

you got to know when to hold them know

when to hold them know when to fall.

Yeah. Oh to

know when to run.

>> Makes sense that a seventh grade girl

would, you know, relate to that. I don't

know. I just loved Kenny Rogers. Anyway,

so I I got up there to sing this song

and I got about halfway through it and

the mic stopped working.

>> Oh god. And so my my moment, you know,

my my triumphant moment was uh you know,

dashed cuz everybody said, "Oh, that

wasn't really you singing. That the tape

player must have turned off." They

refused to acknowledge that it was me

singing. But I knew I felt good about

it. And um I felt even better about it

that they refused to believe it was

actually me and they thought it was a

recorded version of something that

obviously sounded a little more

professional. So um yeah. Okay. So,

you're in Canada. You're a young person

who's realizing I have something

special. Who are you listening to at the

time?

>> Uh, when I was really young, other than

Kenny Rogers, it was um Simon Agaruncle,

Cat Stevens.

>> Yes.

>> Uh, Joan Bayaz, Jonie Mitchell.

>> Yeah. And then learning how to play how?

>> Uh, when I was four, I wanted to be Joan

Baz. So, my mom got me ukulele and I

started taking lessons. I lived in a

little subdivision, so up the street

there was a little old lady who taught

ukulele. And so I walked up there every

week and took lessons. And then when we

moved into the city when I was seven, I

started with the Royal Conservatory of

Music, which was kind of classical music

was at the time kind of the only

legitimate thing way to learn an

instrument. So I took classical guitar

for um 12 years.

>> Wow.

>> Took classical piano for six years. I

took voice for four years. Um, and you

know, it was a fantastic foundation to

learn how to play the instrument, but it

was never really my jam.

>> Okay. So, then you're listening to all

these incredible singer songwriters, and

you decide you want to be a singer

songwriter, and you get a record deal at

19.

>> Yeah.

>> How did that happen? So, the very first

band that I was in when I was 17, the

October game, we played a gig um at the

Delhaus University sub ballroom, and we

opened up for a band called Move. And

they were on a small independent label

in Vancouver. And the guitar player,

singer of the band heard me sing, and

was like, "We want you to come out to

Vancouver and join our band." And I'm

like "Cool cool.

>> I'm 17. That sounds great." So, I ran

home to my mom and dad who, you know,

promptly said, "Are you effing crazy?

Not a chance. you going to finish high

school and um so I was still listening

to them at that time smartly. So I I I

squeaked by high school and then started

going to the art college

>> there and um I was working at a place

called Club Flamingo and Terry McBride

the president of the label came with

their band Skinny Puppy which was this

industrial

skinny puppy.

>> Yeah. Blood and guts and mud and gore.

Yeah. Um anyway,

>> very different than your music game.

Little bit different. Yeah, a little bit

different. So, um he came and I remember

so clearly I was playing quicksilver, my

favorite pinball game, and I was working

on my high score, and he's like, "Hey, I

want to I want to talk to you." I'm

like, "Yeah, yeah, give me a minute."

So, waited until I finished. And he took

me out to his plush blue velvet tour bus

and uh sat me down at the kitchen table

and put a contract for me. He said, "We

want to offer you a five record deal."

>> Whoa. And I was like,

>> "Yeah, yeah, sure. What do you like?

What do you really want? How does

anybody know I'm here?"

>> Yeah. There's too much plush in here.

>> Yeah. Um, but no, he was serious. And

um, originally they wanted me to come

out to Vancouver and work with a bunch

of other network bands. Then when I got

out there, they're like, all these other

network bands hadn't been asked and

like, "We're not going to work with this

punk kid. She's got no track record. She

hasn't written anything." Nah, never

mind. Wow.

>> But I was already there. So at that

point they were like, "Well, let's just

see what you come up with."

>> And so I just kind of started writing.

Wow.

>> To the best of my ability. I mean,

obviously I had, as I said, a great

foundation of understanding music and

theory. I had done deep dives into my

favorite artists, which at the time were

Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush.

>> Um,

yeah. Just

>> Sorry. No, it's good. It's good. I hear

you. I feel you. Um,

so Oh, I just, you know, I I just kind

of fake it till you make it. I I just

made my first record in about a year and

um started touring and toured and toured

and toured and then, you know, just kind

of went from there. That's the thing

that I think sometimes we kind of like,

you know, we're kind of tough on

ourselves and we look back and and look

at our naive about things and think

like, oh, we didn't know what we were

doing. But there's such a freedom when

you're young about kind of not knowing

what's around the corner. Sometimes it's

better to not

>> Ignorance is bliss.

>> Yes. Sometimes that's true. If you knew

how important your decisions were that

if you did went left rather than right,

it would change your whole life. You'd

never take a step.

>> You'd work in you'd be living in fear,

constant fear and constant uncertainty.

So you're right. Just that that sort of,

you know, dumb and green.

>> Yeah.

>> And just like the world is kind of your

oyster and and all these possibilities

feel endless.

>> Do you remember your first time you ever

heard anything that you'd ever written

on the radio?

>> Yeah. Where were you? I was in a taxi

cab with my first publicist, Tony, on

our way to Toronto to do our very first

promotional tour for the record. And Vox

came on the radio and the two of us

looked at each other and just started

screaming. And the

>> You did not know it was going to be on.

>> Taxi driver was like, "What the hell's

going on?" I said, "That's me. That's me

on the radio." And he's like, "Sure."

And go, "No, no, no." And we we got out

and we pulled out the, you know, the

albums that we were bringing with us to

sign for the record or for the radio

station. He's like, "Can I have a

picture with you?" That's so

>> Yeah. Suddenly he wants a picture.

>> Yeah. But it was like it just felt like

like validation.

>> Oh yeah.

>> Oh my god. How is it that this is

already happening? It all felt so

surreal up until that moment. And

>> I mean honestly there were still many

many surreal moments after that.

>> Well, you've had so many hits like

throughout your career. I mean we were I

was listening to your music all morning

and your new record which is great. And

um I it it's so hard to like you're I

imagine

>> I I imagine that songs h you know just

like any piece of art they just kind of

have a life of their own. They take all

these journeys. They

>> they bloom. They come back. They mean

something different the next time

around. Some of them you think oh these

are going to be the ones that are going

to really go and they don't. Or others

that you think like this is the one

that's like the one that everyone's

always singing back to me that you have

so many hits and so many songs.

What like do they does that does does do

does songs feel that way to you? Your

songs that they have their own life and

journey that like is out of your

control.

>> Absolutely. And I mean music is art is

so subjective, right? It's like you see

something, you hear something, you read

something and it resonates with you or

it doesn't and it you then

>> impart you you put your own story into

it and then that that's where you draw

inspiration from. That's where that's

how it affects you.

So I mean

when people come up to me and say oh my

god you know this song you created the

song you wrote

>> has helped me in this way I brought it

with me on my trip and you know like

I've met so many people who went through

high school with my music or went

through university so you know really

pivotal times and huge changes in their

worlds losing a parent losing a child

like

>> so

>> all these stories um about what it means

to other people are beautiful and and

cool to know that there's something I've

created has made some kind of impact in

someone's life and been there with them

on, you know, a beautiful journey, a

tough journey and somehow helped them in

some way.

>> I mean, you've been like a serino for so

many people because they they've used

your music to tell someone how they feel

about them, you know? I mean, we came up

in the era of like mixtapz and putting

music together. It was such a big deal

to, you know, hand someone over a bunch

of music that you picked for them and it

was always

>> here's my playlist. Exactly. It was like

this. It was basically like this is how

I feel about you. It was like it was

like I can't tell you, but I'm going to

have you listen. And there was always

like coded language and what we put

together for people. And so many of your

songs and your music did that for

people. They allowed people to kind of,

you know, feel through you, you know.

And is there is there I mean you're

there's so many hits.

Is there a song that like became bigger

than like is it that still kind of is

like surprising to you that it like it

had the kind of journey it had? I

>> Well, I suppose that would be Angel.

>> Yeah.

>> Um and that was one of those very it

very seldom happens as a songwriter that

something happens quickly and easily for

me. It's like music is flowing all the

time, but lyrics are really hard work.

It's like extracting blood from a stone

often for me and I'm super ADD so trying

to, you know, it's like give me any

distra distraction when I'm trying to do

something that is hard and challenging

in the sense of, you know, trying to

focus. Um, but Angel felt like I was

just a vessel and it just came through

me in like two days and it was done. And

I remember thinking at the end of uh

when I first put out surfacing like the

rest of this album's crap, but Angel's

angel's solid.

>> I mean, obviously I had no perspective.

even now in Pine. You know, there was

actually some good songs I know, but

yeah, a few a few.

>> But that is, you know, that's that's

that mindset when you've just worked and

worked and worked at something and you

don't have any perspective.

>> But Angel has had

>> um, you know, such a life of its own and

has done, you know, so many things, as I

said, talking about how it's helped

people through, you know, individual

tough situations. So many stories of my

I've played this, my mother played this

when she was passing. really helped us.

>> Um, you know, the SPCA obviously, you

know,

>> well, you raised $30 million.

>> Well, that was within the first year, I

think. So, who knows what has happened

since.

>> Do people assume that you um like do

people assume you've you're constantly

fostering and adopting animals.

>> Oh, yeah. because you must get that

product. not believe the and also just

you know like the you know 10 or 20

letters a week about you know people

sending me you know all their rescues

and or I'm doing this charity I'm

working with this can you help and um

yeah you know and it it it took on such

a life of its own I remember I was doing

a a food bank charity gig in New York

eight years later and they said can you

please not play Angel because it's so

synonymous with this other charity

there's going to be some brand confusion

I'm God. Are you serious?

>> Is it true that I will remember you was

a B-side like that? That that that song

was on a like in a film.

>> Yeah, it was uh um Brothers McMullen was

Ed Burns directorial debut.

>> That's right. And it just that that's

like one of the many monster hits.

>> Yeah.

>> How many how many how many how many

number one like how many hits have you

had?

>> Oh, you're you're asking the wrong

people. I suppose I should know this,

too.

>> We're going to look Hold on. We're going

to look it up. I'm going to laugh. You

know what I want to do? I want to brag

about any number one hits.

>> I'm so sick of you know we are always

like oh I don't even know and we should

know.

>> No, this is this is embarrassing that I

don't know either of them.

>> No, it's it's totally normal and

actually it's it's why you're such a

you're you're a normal person who

doesn't look at their hits. But I'm

going to look at your hits right now.

Okay, I'm going to read them right now.

Okay,

>> Sarah, can you handle this?

>> This is very American

and

>> not very Canadian. Well, I just wrote

Sarah McGlaughlin hits.

>> You consulting the Oracle? Okay.

Building a mystery. Sweet surrender.

Possession. Better broken ice cream. Oh

yeah. Angel. Vox. We talked about Vox.

Heard it on the radio. Into the fire.

Elsewhere. Fallen. Fumbling toward

ecstasy. Adia possession. Sweet

surrender. Building. Everybody listening

right now is having this moment of like

h

cuz they're remembering. I mean monster

hit Sarah. a hit maker.

>> Thanks. Sorry, I'm just going to brag

for you. Okay, so then you leave Canada.

You're in a band. Uh, sorry. You're

you're you're making music. Are you in a

band at that point? No, you're just kind

of making music under your you're it's

never Sarah Mlaughlin and the

>> You mean when I got signed?

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, they that that was the

other tricky bit of that when they came

and offered me that deal. My band that I

we hadn't been together about a year cuz

they had gone off to school, so we'd

kind of split up, but still they were

all they knew about it and they were

like, "What did you say?" And I'm like,

"Oh." You're like, "Wow."

>> So, I had this beautiful this sort of

excited moment that I was like, I think

they just want me.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's always

>> So, that was a bit of a tough a tough

moment, too. But, um,

>> now you're you start to tour. And when

how old are you when you asked Paula

Cole to open for you?

>> 21.

>> Wow.

>> Maybe 22. Yeah.

>> And And why did you ask Paula?

>> Because I loved her. Yeah.

>> I loved her music. And

>> how did you find out of her music? Um, I

think just radio.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I was, you know, listening and

watching what, you know, what else was

going on out there and discovered her. I

was like, "Oh my god, what an incredible

voice." She's so powerful and I love her

lyrics and love the melodies and hm

wonder she'd want to come sing.

>> Well, what I love about the Lilith Fair,

which is on Hulu, is that it talks about

the kind of slow process of realizing

there's a way to work. Like there's a

way to choose how to work. It's very

relatable, I think, for a lot of women

who, if they're lucky enough, get an

opportunity to figure out, is there a

way I like to work that I could figure

out? Like, it's that that's the dream.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, and you asked Paula to join as an

opening act and you two realize this is

fun. This is actually fun.

>> Yeah. Well, it's a back then, I mean, I

was all my crew were men. My band were

men. had a female backup singer, but you

know, it was just us and this sea of men

who I adored and loved. They were my

crew and they're a wonderful bunch of

people, but um I just, you know, having

Paula there was just this breath of

fresh air for me and this awareness of

like, you know, we

>> we we kind of need each other. This is a

weird industry. It's isolating. We make

music alone and, you know, um she's just

really nice to have her around. Yeah.

>> Really, it was great to connect with

her. My god, we just saw her at the a

tiff. She showed up. I didn't even know

she was coming and we both burst into

tears. I was like, "Oh my god."

>> Oh, that's so nice. I mean I mean so

sweet. It's it's wild to me, but there

are people that don't really understand

what what Lilith Fair was. And for

people who don't, um they they should

watch this doc certainly. But in a

nutshell, um how how do you describe it

to people who are who have never heard

of it or didn't get a chance to go see

it? Um it was a celebration of much of

the great music that was being made by

women in the late 90s. Um and it was uh

yeah it was basically that and that was

the simple origin story. And then we

were told we couldn't do it because you

shouldn't put more than two women on a

stage together. You certainly can't play

two women back to back on radio. And I

had felt that. I had seen that and

witnessed it time and time again. And I

just never understood or liked the

competitive nature of it. Yeah. you

know, I didn't think music should be put

into those kind of pigeon holes. I

didn't think we as artists should be.

Um, I certainly didn't notice it

happening with men and that pissed me

off as well. So, uh, though it didn't

start out as a political statement. It

be kind of, you know, it be kind of came

became that when I was told you can't do

that, I'm like, oh,

>> oh, yeah, that doesn't work for me. No,

you just you just put a fire under me to

to prove them wrong.

>> Because they were people were saying

there's just no way anyone's going to

pay this money to see all these women

performing. Like there's just

>> Yeah. How insulting. We proved our point

in 1996. Yeah.

>> And then went, "Oh my gosh, this was so

amazing and so fun. Let's do a full tour

next summer." And that was the point at

which it was like, "Oh yeah, no, you

can't do that."

>> So funny. Really?

>> Really? And and it was still You just

can't do it because we won't sell

tickets.

>> Yeah. promoters would not take any risk.

They were like, "You can't do that. You

can't." I said, "Well, we just did." And

we just sold out 15,000 people. And they

were like, "Well, that's a that's a

one-off. That's an anomaly."

>> They're like, "This isn't going to last.

>> It's not going to last." We It was, you

know, oh, that was just a little blip,

>> you a little fat or a little trend that

I'm like, "No, no, no. We can do this."

And again, that back to that naivity of

just Yeah. You know, going, "What are

you talking about? No, we're going to do

this,

>> right?"

>> Um, and you know, we took for the most

There was like no guarantees. We took

all the risk. Um,

>> by taking the risk, did you make more

money because you took the risk?

>> Uh, yes.

>> You know what I mean? Like that's good.

I mean, it's like you had some control.

>> We had some control. We had a ton of

control. Yeah. And we got, you know, we

raised over $7 million for local and

national charities over the three years

as well, which people don't, you know,

again, I can't I can't stress enough to

watch the doc. Um, but on top of

everything else you were doing, I think

what was so incredible about Lilith

Lilith Fair is it really did feel like a

fair. It was there were people walking

around, there were booths everywhere.

There was fundraising constantly. There

was backstage everyone was hanging out.

All the women were bringing their kids

on tour. I It was like it's like a it

was like a utopian version of what it

would look like if women were in charge

of most of the systems of how to work.

And it looked and still looks like this

ideal way in which to be part of a

community and still feel like you're an

individual with, you know, you had a lot

of artists who were very, very different

on that tour.

>> Yeah.

>> And yet they still all wanted to hang

out with each other. They took care of

each other. You, you know, you you paid,

you know, you gave health insurance to

crew who often never had it on tour.

Like

>> Yeah. They never had it before. That's

kind of unheard of in the industry.

Yeah. I mean, listen, it was um it was

just an extension of the way I live my

life. And again, looking at what it is

as how it is as an artist, as a band

member, a crew member coming into

someone else's environment, like how how

would I want to be treated? How would I

want to be made to feel? I want to feel

respected and um taken care of. And that

was just the MO. It's like we're going

to take care of everybody. We're going

to make sure everybody feels good,

respected. This is a This is a safe

space. This is fun. You're all going to

get fed really well. I mean, I'll never

forget, you know, crew came in first day

of new new artists and they're always

super grumpy. I mean, you know, I've had

that experience going into a festival,

you know, where it's like, are we even

going to get a sound check? Are we going

to get fed? It's going to be a long day.

>> By the end of the day, everybody's

happy. Everybody's smiling. They're

like, okay, this is this is going to be

great. And that is the environment that

I wanted to create for everybody there.

It's like this is an extension of me, of

my of my hospitality, of my ethos.

>> Yes.

>> You know,

>> this is how you want to work.

>> Be respectful. Treat treat everybody the

way you want to be treated yourself.

Just, you know, like live and let live.

Let people be and let's just

>> I know sounds very woowoo and utopian. I

still like that though. I mean, I just

>> cute, man. It's like I mean, why does

>> why can't we all just get along? Why

does it why do we have to keep and also

why do we have to say these kind of

things and then apologize for like how

earnest and like because like you

>> it's hopeful we need to stay hopeful

it's like you know that was the thing

about the doc is that what I felt was

>> you know you didn't no one can get

anything exactly right right so what was

really wonderful about what I felt like

you were doing was constantly pivoting

taking feedback and adjusting like there

was a lot of adjustments you made

What were some of the things that you

know when you were making that fair in

it second or third year you realized oh

we have to adjust here?

>> Yeah I mean we the the big adjustment

was very early on which was like you

know white chick folk fest and I mean I

I knew that was coming and I was I

agreed with that. I you know and I was

frustrated by it because we asked

everybody we asked all these different

artists from all different genres of

music. Um, but you know to to be fair,

their management teams would look at the

lineup so far and go, I'm not sure where

the place is for my artists in this. And

you know, in my head, my naive head, I'm

like,

>> I listen to all different kinds of

music. I know that most of my friends

who are fans of music, they don't listen

to just one genre. They, it just depends

on their mood. They have. So why are we

being so um you know uh minimizing of

the you know and and sort of looking at

our fans and going oh they they can't

handle this. Of course they can handle

it. They they want it. They're hungry

for it. And so to create that

opportunity that you know for all of us

to

>> showcase our unique talents. It just

again it just it felt like the most

natural thing in the world.

>> Yeah. But it was but it was a struggle

to get those get a lot of you know black

and brown artists for sure. like I don't

know where my place is and they want to

see how it does and they want to see.

>> So the success of the first year then

allowed us way more latitude and way

more freedom to go hey you know you know

go back and push and say look this is a

really great opportunity for your

artists to expand their fan base.

>> Yeah.

>> Um and you know we in the second year we

also um we realized there was an

opportunity again to how do you expand

your um fingerprint in a community after

you leave? not only giving a dollar

every ticket sale to a local women's

shelter, but having a stage for local

artists in every market, you know, so

just creating those opportunities, tons

of tableabling of various local

organizations, um, you know, women's

organizations,

local and national, like just raising

awareness, creating the space where

there's open dialogue about all these

things.

>> Yeah.

and the women that came through that

festival. I mean, pretty diverse and

dynamic.

>> So good. Can we talk about them just for

a second? Like, okay, so we've got

>> we've got

>> Paula, we've got Shawn. Incredible.

We've got um

>> Cheryl Crowe.

>> Yeah. Erica Badu, Michelle and Deello.

Uh Queen Latifah,

>> Missy Elliott. First time ever on tour.

>> I know.

>> That was a coup. We were

>> How did you get Missy?

>> Um, well, you'd have to ask Marty that.

I mean, he was.

>> Yeah, that was above my pay grade. But,

um, somehow he got Missy and uh, that

was that was awesome.

>> I mean, that footage of her coming out

on stage like

>> in the

>> in the giant when she was when she wore

that big when the big garbage bag stuff

with like all the inflatable stuff in

that style. So, she's incredible

>> and and such an incredible

>> and you saw the entire audience

instantly stood up and like, "Oh, okay.

Wow. What is this? This is so much fun."

What about you had the Indigo Girls

join?

>> The Indigo Girls were such a an amazing

anchor for me. Um, they came on early on

and kind of got everybody, you know,

feeling comfortable about singing

together. Like, I was still a good

Canadian. Like, I was I was afraid to

ask. I really wanted to sing with

everybody, but I didn't quite know how

to do it. And it's funny watching the

dock how Juel was so, you know, said it

exactly the same way. It's like, I

didn't know I was allowed to do that.

Um, they're like, "Oh, no. Why don't why

don't why is everybody singing

together?" I'm like, "Oh, we can do

that." He's like, "Yeah, let's just go

do it." Um, and they so they just opened

up this huge opportunity for all of us

to really feel a whole different kind of

connection. And that's when things

really took off. And I also love what

they say in the doc. The Indigo girls

are basically like you need some like

openly gay girls here to to teach you

how to party. Um you had Pat Benitar.

>> Yes.

>> Amy Lou Harris.

>> Ammy Lou Harris.

>> Bonnie Raid.

>> Shenado Connor.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean

>> that was the part in the documentary. I

mean I've seen so many iterations of

this over the edits but I cry every

time.

>> Tell me why.

>> Well because she's gone and she was

>> such a gift and She like she was really

shy at the beginning, but wow did she

open up. She was a little [ __ ] as well.

Like she was super playful, like a

jokester, prankster. Um we had so much

fun together. And then to get to sing

with her, you know, it's like being in

the presence of, you know, a goddess

basically. Uh when she opens up her

mouth and starts to sing, it's just it's

otherworldly.

>> Yeah.

>> And I I got to be part of that and I got

to sing with her. a a number of nights

and uh yeah, that was pretty magical.

And then just, you know, getting to

watch that like all these moments that

were so powerful and important to me and

and and

watching myself grow up on screen like

not a lot of humans get to have a gift

like that given to them where it's like

this is

>> such a powerful and important time in my

life um that has been

>> so succinctly and beautifully captured.

>> Yeah. Um, so yeah, watching watching

that just she's she's gone now and I

know

>> it's so sad.

>> So sad. Such an incredible talent.

>> Yeah. And she was, you know, she she

suffered even back then like she just

she was really misunderstood and

>> Yeah.

>> You know. Yeah. It's tough.

>> Tracy Chapman, another beautiful artist

who I love in the documentary. You talk

about how she was the one everyone one

of many people that everyone came out

and watched.

>> Yeah. Oh, every night I mean she was

just talk about grace.

>> Yeah.

>> Just this quiet graceful presence. She

was very shy too.

>> Yeah.

>> Um it was kind of hard to draw her out.

>> So funny that people who are performing

you know it's it's thing we learn over

and over again obviously but we're

reminded that people who are performers

are not necessarily extroverts.

>> Such an introvert. Yeah. Um

>> who's the most introverted? I Who's the

most introverted on that tour and who is

the most extroverted? Uh Tracy is

probably the most introverted and

extroverted. Um

maybe Cheryl. Um I mean me, I was, you

know, I was pretty extrovert actually.

Okay. I mean

>> Amy and Emily

>> for sure. Yeah.

>> Cuz they were just loud, you know, they

were loud and proud and let's have fun.

Um so they brought that really like they

said this really sort of geeky fan

energy. Um,

>> and you had like you talked about Emmy

Lou Harris, um, uh, Bonnie Ray, Chrissy

Hind, and and

>> I don't know if you feel this way, but I

know I do because in, you know, I've

have I grew up in a generation where I

feel like

>> women my age right now are working

together all the time and feeling really

good about that and loving that

experience. And when you meet someone

who's maybe 10 years older than you,

they just haven't had that experience

very much. I've been on many sets where

women um in their mid60s have said, "Oh,

I've I've never, you know, been on a set

with this many women."

>> Yeah. I mean, they grew up at a time

where we, you know, in whatever industry

we were in, we were being offered a tiny

sliver of the pie and we were in

competition with each other in every

element, like it or not. And think about

what they what they came up against as

they were coming up in the world that

was even, you know, I would argue more

toxic

>> and more marginalizing towards women.

>> Yeah.

>> And, you know, you just kind of had to

deal with those were the social norms

then.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, you know, you you walk into a radio

station and get your ass grabbed.

>> [ __ ] hell.

>> Or or just knowing that that may happen

or just the comments, you know, like and

it

>> Yeah. You know, I think it out.

>> Yeah. Well, because it was normalized.

>> Totally.

>> And you just you suck it up and you keep

going because well, if you make a stink

about it, then you're you're pushed out

even further into the emergence.

>> Yeah. And you're hanging out in a room

full of boys.

>> Yeah.

>> And if you want to be in that room,

>> you kind of need to tow the line. It was

the same thing. I was, you know,

thinking about that. Um, like Anne

Powers is in the documentary. Love

Powers.

>> Yeah. You know, I didn't like Anne

Powers back then because she ripped the

[ __ ] out of us. And I'm like, are you

kidding me? And she kind of claims it,

right? She's like, I didn't get it.

She's like, I saw it.

>> She couldn't have though because she was

in a room full of guys and she was a

single woman female critic. Like, I

forgive her because I understand now. I

didn't at the time. I'm like, how could

you be doing this? But the room that she

was in was her male counterparts. And if

she, you know, spoke appreciatively or

in reverence to what we were doing, she

would have been ostracized.

>> Yeah. We all suffered. We all suffered

in our 20s in the '9s with deep

internalized misogyny that we didn't

even know we had in an attempt to

assimilate. We were like, I want to be

in the room. I want to figure out how to

work the system and I'm going to without

even knowing, I'm going to buy into a

system that I don't believe in and

that's actually hurting me.

>> Yeah. And what I love about Anne Powers,

who's a journalist in the film, who kind

of owns up to the fact that she wrote

about, you know, wrote about how she

didn't wasn't getting Lilith Fair and it

wasn't for her. She realizes like much

later on that she was grappling with her

own like sense of trying to fit in.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, Lilair got teased like

ridiculed.

>> Did you care about that at the time? How

did you

feel? Um, it was it was hurtful. It was

annoying. But I just kept going back to

the fact that well,

you obviously haven't come.

>> Yes.

>> And seen it and felt it because if you

had, you'd think differently. So, I just

kind like, well, you can have your

opinion, but I'm having the time of my

life.

>> No kidding. And I don't want

>> You're missing out. Sorry.

>> Yeah. It's Yes, that's right. And I

loved how you guys did press conferences

in every city that you went to.

>> So painful. Did you ever think about not

doing them?

>> No, because there were there was a there

were two elements to that. There was one

to, you know, the press wanted access.

We understood that that was part of the

beach that you have to feed.

>> Um, and the the beautiful thing is at

the end of the press conference, we got

to give attention to a local woman's

shelter.

>> Yeah. you know, to sort of raise

awareness for the issues that they were

dealing with and to show that we were

and not to be self- congratulatory, but

to show that we were giving money to

this and to raise awareness for it. Um,

and I tell you the it felt so good to

have that cherry at the end of this, you

know, typically annoying and demeaning

and

>> uh dumb press conference where I just

got besieged every day with, you know,

why why do you hate men? Why aren't you

doing this? Why aren't you doing that?

You're too much of this. You're not

enough of that. Very typical. Don't be

too pretty. Don't be too loud. Oh,

you're too, you know, you're too quiet.

Like,

>> you can't win. And that was that thing

that I

>> hadn't experienced until I was, you

know, in in this this quiet radical

movement that we were

>> we were doing of just, you know, just

basically being ourselves and

celebrating each other and celebrating

the success that we were all having and

appreciating that and lifting each other

up. again like why is that so radical

why is that so threatening it was kind

of shocking. Yeah.

>> Um so yeah the press conferences were

painful but they were also um an

important thing to do.

>> I mean you handled those conferences

from what I saw really really well for

the most part. You really did. Was it

hard sometimes to be running the

festival while you were in it because

everybody else kind of gets to come in

and like have a good time?

>> I wasn't running it.

>> Uh Dan Fraser was running it. I mean he

had a hell of a job. kind of the, you

know, you're the,

>> you know, to your point, you're on the

face of it, for sure.

>> And you have to worry about stuff like,

>> yeah,

>> you know, it's like having the house

party right?

>> Yeah. There were a ton of day-to-day

decisions that had to be made. There

were a ton of fires that had to be put

out, someone didn't show up, someone

slept with someone else or, you know,

there was just and then and then they

were like someone was angry and hurt or

someone said something that hurt

someone's feelings and you had to deal

with like HR.

>> Was there an HR? CR me you were

>> me and Dan there was no freaking HR we

were just like okay [ __ ] totally you

just manage this you put on a blazer and

you were like okay let's talk you know

it's like it was kind of Julie the

cruise director right you know saying hi

to everybody making sure everybody felt

good um writing letters to every new

artist and you know it's likeund and

some artists in one year you know so

it's just this constant flow of meeting

new people and making sure everybody was

great and um and then yeah putting out

the fires of the day or just being

involved in all these little decision

ision that you know we kind of had to

make on a daily basis. So yeah it was

exhausting and all-encompassing but you

know again the the gift at the end was

like I

>> I got to watch all these artists. I got

to perform with all these artists. Okay.

So we do this thing on the um on the pod

where we ask people who know our guests

to speak well behind their back um and

to give me a question to ask them. So we

talked to Cheryl Crow this morning.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> I know. It was so fun and so fun to talk

to her about those times and you guys

performing together and you know I was

saying to her,

you know, it was just it's so it was

just it will never get old watching you

all be each other's fans, you know, like

>> you're you're an artist and you're also

a fan and she's such an incredible

talent. And she wanted me to ask you two

questions which I thought were really

interesting questions to ask. They're

kind of opposite but also feel like

they're in the same world. One is if you

were not making music, did you ever

think of what else you would do?

>> Um, ever so briefly because I don't know

what else I would do. Um, I

um either a hairdresser.

>> Oo.

>> Or um a jewelry designer.

>> Oo.

>> Which honestly I still kind of do.

>> You design jewelry?

>> Yeah. Just really simple stuff like I

made last two Christmases ago I made

like 30 necklaces for all my friends.

And I'm crafty. You're a crafter. Um,

you know, I need something to do with my

hands or they're in my mouth.

>> Yeah. It's not healthy.

>> I love that. Okay. And and and that

makes sense hairdresser, too, because

you like touching people's hair.

>> Yeah. I was a dance mom for years, so I

got to do all these, you know,

>> for your daughters.

>> And are you good at a blow do a good

blowout?

>> Um, I'm I do a pretty good blowout.

Yeah.

>> Do you like I like the French braids and

the

>> Oh, you can do the intricate stuff. Well

done.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. And then, so that was one

question. And then the other question

was, did you have a sense um did you

know deep down, you know, people ask

this question from a lot of artists, but

was there some part of you that knew

that you were going to make it, that you

were going to be famous was Cheryl's

question, but like was there a part of

you that sensed that or knew that? No.

No. I can honestly say no. And mostly

because I didn't even know what that

meant. Yeah.

>> I did not know what that looked like. I

did not come from a culture of celebrity

of looking at famous people and and you

know hoping to achieve that.

>> Yeah.

>> My thing was I want to do something that

makes me feel good.

>> Yeah.

>> It was so naive and so simple

>> but it's pure

>> and and pure.

>> Yeah. And I just you know again this

sort of blissful

um time in the world where we could kind

of just figure it out figure out as we

go.

>> Yeah. Um and we were there were so many

more opportunities uh to just you know

to fumble around and try and figure it

out. Like I just feel like even both my

daughters there was just so much

pressure to decide you know what

university to go to and you kind of have

to make a decision about the whole

trajectory of your life. And I'm like oh

my god half my friends in my 50s still

don't have a clue what they're doing.

You know, I just got really really lucky

>> that I had this,

>> you know, this path that I kind of got

off I got offered the golden ticket at

19 and it's like, well, this will be

fun.

>> I'll go do this. And my dad said,

listen, if this doesn't work out, the

art college is still it's always going

to be there,

>> but this will not. You got to try it.

>> And of course, I wanted to, but yeah, I

didn't

It's funny. In my yearbook, someone

wrote Destined to Become a Famous

Rockstar, which is hilarious. And I'm

just like, haha. Yeah, but we didn't

know what that even looked like. I know.

I know.

>> That's very woo.

>> I know.

>> Destined to become a famous rock star.

>> Yeah.

>> Somebody knew.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So, I guess it's combo see, you know,

other people can see things that you

can't see too often, right?

>> And you talk about your daughters, too,

and I love the beautiful aspect that

your daughter sings on this record with

you. Yeah, that was a great full circle

moment for me.

>> How why?

>> Um well, because they, you know, they

they're they both have beautiful voices.

They won't sing around me and I guess

because, you know, I I sing and that's

often the case with kids. They kind of

try and go the opposite. But we cannot

deny they both have beautiful voices.

Um, but the song in particular, one in a

long line, it's the last song I wrote.

And I think it was this, you know,

looking at what's going on in the world

and the erosion of women's rights, not

only here, but all over the world. And

thinking about what do I need to say? I

I I feel like now is not the time to be

silent or complacent. Like I I've

always, you know, tread that line

carefully and not been political, but

I'm like, I I have to say something

about this. I'm just I'm so frustrated

and angry and scared and I have two

daughters and they're they're going into

the world and you know we we need to

speak loudly about the things that we

believe in even even though I was afraid

to.

>> Um so and I've always used music as my

vehicle to for expression. Yeah.

>> So um that song

>> to have both my daughters sing on that

with me just felt really powerful. Yeah,

that's so cool. And what was it like

being in the studio with each other? The

stewed.

>> Well, we actually weren't. It was in my

daughter's phone in my daughter's

bedroom on my iPhone because Perfect.

>> Yeah, it was kind of at the I wrote that

song right at the end of the record and

um you know, Will was actually mixing

the rest of the record and trying to

trying to organize my kids. You know,

there was a bit of convincing to get him

to do it in the first place. I'll do it

next week, Mom. And I'm like like okay

like we're mixing the record. Will needs

these tracks now. So we just actually

sat in the bedroom with my eldest and

she sang it. She just put headphones on

and iPhones are amazing for that now. Um

and then Taja, my little one, went down

into the studio. She wouldn't let me

near her when she did it.

>> Yeah. I was wondering if they would let

you watch.

>> Yeah.

>> But my 23-year-old, you know, just

earnest full voiced sang right in front

of me. So uninhibited. It was so

beautiful. And this is deeply more

powerful because of the challenges and

the struggles that we've been through

for so many years as mother and

firstborn daughter.

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz it was tough.

>> What what what what did you what have

you been learning about being the mother

of a daughter of daughters? Like but

what was what was tough about it?

>> You know, I mean there's there's so many

things I could say about that and I wish

I wish I knew

>> what I know now to be able to go back,

you know, without feeling

>> yourself knowing what you know now. Um,

I would have been I would have been

softer on her in a different way. I was

a hard ass.

>> And and it's funny because I thought so

clearly in my own mind that I was being

the antithesis of my mother.

>> And I looked at the way she parented and

I thought, I'm going to do everything

completely different. And then her words

come spewing out of your mouth in a

moment of anger and frustration. You're

like, oh my god, I can't believe I did

that. Um, but I just, you know, I she

was undiagnosed. Um, we thought she had

ADHD and, you know, when things got

hard, this wall would go up and she'd

just rage and be so frustrated. And so,

you know, I looked at that and going,

how do we how do I help you with this?

How do we move past this because the

world out there is scary and big and you

have to have some grit and you have to

do hard things so that you know you can.

So, I was tough and what we didn't

realize is that was it was actually

anxiety and all this came out. We did

family systems counseling and

>> peeling back all those layers of the

onion the way I was communicating to her

like was just making her feel shitty

about herself instead of building her up

which was completely the opposite of

what I thought I was doing. So, you

know, I had to eat a lot of humble pie

and take stock and go, "Okay, look, I

want a relationship with my kid. So,

>> I need to learn how to communicate

differently with her." And in doing so,

she also got to take some responsibility

for the way she was reacting and

recognizing that that's not where I was

coming from anyway. So,

>> it was a long process, but it was

beautiful and powerful. And we have

>> such an open, loving relationship now

because of that. Um,

>> it's so great, Sarah, that you talk

about this. I just have to say because

it's the way that women help each other

constantly is to just like break free

from the narrative that we are getting

everything right as mothers like it's

it's it's a joke.

>> It's such a joke but but it's really

hard. It's it's it's kind of the last

constant judgment you know. It's like

you know you watch people look at you

out of the corner of the eye when you

let your kid cry in the grocery store

floor and it's like oh my god corral

that kid you're a bad parent because

you're doing this or you're doing that

or not doing this. It's like again just

constant judgment,

>> constant judgment and pressure and the

most coming from within on ourselves.

>> And anytime we share any version of that

out loud or just even in our friend

group, like you just feel this feeling

that everyone wants to say like

>> that's an exhale. You know, me too. I'm

feeling that too. What you know, like

it's it's wild how we still do this to

ourselves over and over. I mean, we get

it done to us, of course, too, but we do

it to ourselves. There's an alarm.

There's a siren right there coming to

pick us up cuz we're such bad moms.

>> I mean, it's like the same thing with

menopause,

>> you know, like just there was no

conversation about it and just, you

know, all the changes that we go

through. Um, and thank goodness like I I

kind of love social media for that now

because there are so many platforms that

women are now talking about this and all

and and doctors are finally paying

attention to the hundreds of thousands

of women who suffered and who went

through all sorts of [ __ ] And the

doctor's just like, "Hey, you know, it's

just

>> it's just a thing. Just suck it up."

>> Yeah. It's like, "Is my frozen shoulder

because of menopause?" And doctors are

like, "We'll never know."

>> Yeah.

>> No one's going to No one's going to put

any money towards research on that, you

know.

>> Yeah. They're like, "Huh, maybe."

>> Oh, if men could bleed, you know, things

would be very, very different.

>> That would be a good um heavy metal um

band name. If men could bleed,

>> a double bill. If men could bleed and

skinny puppy.

>> That's perfect. Um, okay. I got a few um

rapid fire for you.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> First of all, how do how do you what's

your sleep routine? I love to ask people

this. Do you love to sleep?

>> I love to sleep.

>> Are you good at sleeping?

>> I'm really Yes, I'm good at sleeping now

that I'm on estrogen and progesterone.

>> Totally makes it [ __ ] as when I went

into menopause. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And do you take any sleep? Um, do

you take anything to go to sleep?

>> No.

>> And what's your ritual to go to sleep?

>> Well, you know what? Red light therapy

has been my friend. I

>> Hold on. Talk to me about it. I have I

>> I don't know about this.

>> I have a massage table and I basically

have this like six foot long panel of

red light especially because you know

when I'm skate skiing three hours a day

as I was doing a lot like your body

needs your muscles need

>> say for the skate skiing.

>> Yeah. You know like it's like like cross

country. So there's classic which is in

the grooves and skate is on the corduroy

and it's like you know bathlon four

words. I don't know.

>> Grooves and corduroy. Are you on ice

skates?

>> No. No. It's classic. It's like it's

like cross country skiing. It's on these

little match sticks.

>> Okay.

>> And um you just you kind of they're long

like crosscountry skates, but instead of

being in the two

>> you just said skates again. So you're on

skates or skis.

>> They're skate skis.

>> So what they are is a very narrow long

skate.

>> We don't have those here.

>> You do. We do not.

>> You do. I have been to Colorado I don't

know how many years in a row skate

skiing. So you do.

>> Um it's a big thing. Anyway, so it's so

fun. I just I love I love being

outdoors. I love nature. I would be

outside all the time if I could. It just

gets a little too cold. But, you know,

to be able to be for 4 hours outside in

the snow in the mountains, like finding

frozen lakes and going out on like it's

magical. And the coolest part about

where I live is I can take my dogs.

>> That's awesome.

>> Yeah. So, doing a lot of that anyway.

So, yeah. So, I exhaust myself if I can.

That's right. Climbing hills or you

know, jumping in legs, whatever. So

tasty.

>> Um and then so usually I spend like 15

minutes before I go to bed just lying

under this light cuz it just calms

system down. It's red light. Yeah.

>> Red light therapy.

>> Yeah. Infrared. You heal faster. Um I'm

I'm serious.

>> Get one of these red lights.

>> Yeah. So I do that not every night, but

most nights um you know, I don't really

have much of a ritual. I I try to stop

drinking water around 5:00 so I don't

have to get up in the middle of night

and pee.

>> Oh yeah.

>> So I frontload as best of my abilities.

Um,

>> but you know, I usually go to bed around

9.

>> That's what I'm talking about.

>> That's kind of it. There's

>> 900 p.m. That is a winner's That's a

winner.

>> I mean, honestly, 10 is probably a

little more realistic, but I try to go

to bed at 9:00, especially in in the

winter. Um, and you know, there's

nothing good that happens after 10:00.

>> Not much. Not especially when you have

to get up at 6:00.

>> Shut it down. Go to bed at 9:00. Wake up

at 6:00. Feel like a hero.

>> Give me 8 hours of solid sleep. I am I

totally less than my dream is to eat

dinner at 6:30 and then

>> walk right into the bedroom at night.

>> Early bird special. I try and eat around

55530

>> and then just

>> start down

>> and shut her down. Okay, rapid fire.

Here we go. Who do you predict is going

to be your Spotify rap this year? Like

who are the musicians you're listening

to the most on your like if we were

>> Phoebe Brides? H

>> Yeah.

>> The best.

>> Yeah. Or Boy Genius or you know

competition. definitely be would be on

like a current version of Lil Affair if

there existed one. In some ways, Boy

Genius is the

>> Oh, you got three amazing musicians,

singer songwriters independently

unique and beautiful, all choosing to

come together to be a powerhouse trio.

>> Awesome.

>> Best Canadian city.

>> Oh, I'm going to get in trouble.

Vancouver.

>> What's the best thing about being

Canadian and non-American?

>> That is so baiting.

>> Sorry. Don't worry. Forget it. Forget

it. Forget it. Um, healthare.

>> Yeah, healthcare. Surfing or paddle

boarding?

>> Surfing.

>> So, you surf?

>> Yeah, I was surfing since I was 30.

>> And then, um, you were on SNL and Rudy

Giuliani was the host.

>> Oh my god, I remember that. Yeah.

>> So, it was Sarah McGlaughlin and Rudy

Giuliani in in 19 back again

>> in 1997.

>> Yeah.

>> What do you remember about your

experience? Was that the only time you

were on SNL?

I have I feel maybe like I was on twice,

but I'm not sure. Honestly, I remember

what I remember is Anna Gangster and

like you know Based in Blood doing that.

That was with I don't know if that was

really

>> Were you on Were you on the show when

Anna did the um Lilith uh uh

>> not the Lilith one? No, but Based in

Blood, which was the Thanksgiving song.

I I I got to participate in that.

>> Wait, you were in that?

>> I was in it.

>> Yeah. Okay. This is really interesting.

Anna used to play a character on SNL

called Cinder Calhoun was a very earnest

>> um you know kind of like

>> progressive singer songwriter and

>> she sang a song called Based in Blood.

Let's watch it.

>> Anna's such a good singer.

million

words.

>> Oh my god, this is so good. I remember

this. Oh my god, this is so good. Well,

I'm so grateful that you came here. You

are always ahead of your time and I

can't wait to see what you do next and

congrats on all the good things that are

happening now and it means a lot that

you came by. So, thank you so much.

>> Happy to be here.

>> Wow. Thank you so much, Sarah McLaclin.

you are so cool and interesting and and

so fun to talk to and uh it really took

me down memory lane there and you know

for this polar plunge I just wanted to

remind everybody how badass Pat Benitar

is. That's all

just how amazing her voice is and how

great of an artist she is and like Sarah

has just always been this, you know,

woman kind of making music on her own

terms. And um she was I think probably

Pat Benitar and New Addition were my the

first two concerts I saw when I was in

middle school. And um I saw Pep Benitar

at the Orum in Boston in

I don't know was I think maybe I was a

freshman in high school and uh her

husband Neil Geraldo lead guitarist

still together.

Um so anyway that's all just using this

time to say Pat if you're listening I

love you. Please come on the show. and

everybody else listening. Um, here's to

all the great music we had growing up

and all the great music we have now and

all the great music yet to come. Music

will save us. Okay, bye.

You've been listening to Good Hang. The

executive producers for this show are

Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss Berman, and

me, Amy Polar. The show is produced by

The Ringer and Paperkite. For The

Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Cat

Spelain, Kaia McMullen, and Aia Xanerys.

for Paperkite. Production by Sam Green,

Joel Levelvel, and Jenna Weiss Berman.

Original music by Amy Miles.

>> Was a really good Hey